@AlessandroSPQR
thank you for you time and effort in this analysis.

First off, this block and tackle system is just to keep with scale of the full sized BLUENOSE. The size of the string used for the main sheet is 1.5 mm. It is definitely oversized for the work it is supposed to do. It is rated at 95 pounds break strength. 6 strands of it would be 570 pounds.

Do you used twisted string for sheeting or braided string on you schooner?
I did find photos of the block and tackle on full sized BLUENOSE. Understanding how it works, I tried to create the same mechanical design, in miniature. Looking at the block and tackle that I rigged, it looks wrong.
I will un-do the rigging of the block and tackle and clean up the rigging of the sheet.
weight of sheeting
If my sheet was scaled up to the BLUENOSE, it would be a 36mm rope. BLUENOSE appears to be using about a 20mm rope. I have a 0.34mm braided thread I will try, to see if that will lighten the load on the block and tackle.

My counterweight is 1kg. I will start to lighten it to see what force is needed to open the the block and tackle.

When I change over to the 0.34 mm line I will check to see if it needs less load to open up the block and tackle.

A 0.75mm string is rated for 41 pounds. That is approximately the total weight of the model. 0.34 mm string will be one quarter of the 0.75 cross section, so maybe 10 pounds?? With 6 lines in the block and tackle to produce rating of 60 pounds or 1.5 times the weight of the entire vessel.

So, first job is to get the block and tackle working better.
At least it works, TEST #1: PASSED
On to test #2
Let me know of any progress on your gaff sail controls

@RossM
Hi Ross.
I’ve reviewed the photos and the text, so I have a few questions.
_Everything is perfectly clear; there are no ambiguous points—you explained yourself very well.
I hope to do the same, though I’m worried the translation might let me down._

1. You used a block-and-tackle system with two blocks: one triple block and one double block (the triple block is the moving one, and the double block is fixed).
This is a typical setup—the classic mainsail tackle.
This configuration allows you to reduce the required effort by a 6:1 ratio. In other words, as you know, there are six rope segments supporting the load.
The force is therefore reduced sixfold (Mechanical Advantage = 6).
So, for example, if you need to lift 60 kg, you would need a force of 10 kg (ideally disregarding friction; in real-world, non-ideal situations, friction reduces this ratio).
Put another way—looking at it in reverse—if your winch can lift 1 kg, a tackle set up this way allows you to lift 6 kg.
Bear in mind, however, that to haul in one segment of rope, you need to pull in six times that amount. For instance, if the boom needs to move (move away or come closer) by 1 meter, you have to haul in or let out a full 6 meters of sheet.
So, be aware that if you want to move the sheet by five centimeters, you have to haul in 30 centimeters.

My questions and points of uncertainty are as follows:
Was this choice necessary—even mandatory—based on a calculation of the forces involved? In other words, did you know that your sail area could subject the winch to a load far exceeding the winch's maximum limit? For example: did you estimate that the sail might generate a load of 5 kg—while your winch can only pull 1 kg without overheating—so you adopted this block-and-tackle configuration to move the boom smoothly by applying 6 kg of force (or actually less, due to friction)?
Or did you choose a two-block system—one with three sheaves and one with two—simply because that is how it is done in reality, how it appears on the actual Bluenose, and you wanted to remain faithful to the scale reproduction?

1a. Whatever reason led you to use a tackle system with a three-sheave block and a two-sheave block, I have some reservations.
First of all, in my opinion, the line only runs smoothly as long as tension is maintained on both blocks.
Unfortunately, as all of us ship modelers have observed, scale rigging behaves very differently from real rigging. Let me use the ropes on my model's cannons as an example:
A real rope with a diameter of 3 or 5 cm—or better yet, 10 cm—will settle onto the deck or hang down under its own weight in the way we all consider natural.
That same rope in scale, however, will remain raised, suspended unnaturally in mid-air, or take on a completely unrealistic shape unless it is treated with paint or tamed with glue.
My concern is that the Bluenose's line—when not under tension (i.e., when the two blocks aren't being pulled taut in opposite directions)—will tend to assume odd positions and risk becoming tangled.
I hope that doesn't happen; I am counting on the fact that your larger scale allows you to use much thicker ropes, which should behave more like the real thing.

1b. What keeps the boom—and consequently the three-way block—under tension? The answer (as seen in the photos you posted) is the suspended weight: the jar with the red lid.
Okay, but what will replace this force when sailing? You’ll probably say the wind.
Well, I’m concerned that since the wind isn't always present, the tension might slacken at times, potentially leading to tangles.
I don't mean to be a pessimist; I’m just warning you about potential issues.

2. However, the issues mentioned so far aren't major, and—most importantly—they won't necessarily occur.
I repeat: I hope the scale of your model allows the sheet to have the right thickness and weight so that its behavior mimics the real thing.
The problem I see as quite difficult to solve, however, is the actual control of the mainsail via the boom's movement.
Judging by your photos, I see the sheet connecting the boom to the winch via the block-and-tackle system.
In this case—aside from the presence of the block-and-tackle—the setup looks identical to mine (along with the associated limitations).
Let me explain: With the boom fully out (for example, on a broad reach or a run), you might decide to sheet in the mainsail (to switch to a beam reach and then a close-hauled course), thereby retracting the sheet to its minimum length. In this scenario, you simply command the RC winch to wind in.
With the sheet fully hauled in—at its minimum length—if you want to let the boom out, you have to send the reverse command to the winch to allow the sheet to extend.
But—and this is important—that action won't provide the force needed to actually push the boom open. What will act as the counterweight (the jar with the red lid) to open the boom and let the sheet unspool? As we said, it’s the wind.
Okay, so you’re building an open system, just like the one I made.
The problem is that you don't have two opposing forces—like in the closed system used to move the yard of a square-rigged sail—capable of pulling the boom to either side; you can only haul in or ease out the sheet. Essentially, you cannot mechanically force the boom to move left or right.
Therefore, during a change of tack—whether tacking or gybing—the boom won't be mechanically controlled; instead, it will swing to the other side naturally, following the hull's position and the wind direction, and adjusting itself to the new situation.
And this brings us to the problem I mentioned earlier: when tacking—and perhaps gybing—at low speeds (with little momentum), changing tacks using only the rudder is difficult and might not succeed.
As you well know, on full-sized sailing ships, the rudder's limited effectiveness is aided by the sails, which are manipulated to assist the maneuver.
However, with a scale sailing model, we don't have full control over the sails—or rather, we do for square sails, but not for gaff sails (i.e., those controlled by a boom).

I’m working on a way to solve this problem.

@AlessandroSPQR
The MAIN SHEET extended out

video on the operation of it soon

You are correct, high level of force is needed to operate a triple block.

@AlessandroSPQR
To the top, the DOUBLE BLOCK
To the bottom, the TRIPLE BLOCK on the MAIN BOOM
The red is the container full of water, the counterweight for the test

@AlessandroSPQR
Top down view of the MAIN WINCH connected by the MAIN SHEET, to the DOUBLE BLOCK that would be on the deck

@AlessandroSPQR

As promised, the MAIN SAIL BOOM with triple block & double block (no sails in place).
To the left vertically, is the LOWER MAIN MAST
To the right horizontally, is the MAIN BOOM
To the far right is the MAIN WINCH
To centre lower is the board supporting the counter weight for the test

@AlessandroSPQR

Small question. When you were using three way pulleys, were you using twisted string for the sheet or braided string for the sheet? If this doesn't translate well let me know and I will clarify my question

@AlessandroSPQR I recognize the issue that you are writing about. The main mast will carry about 7 square feet of sail, so I will do my counter weight to the boom at that weight to see if the sheet can remain untangled. the blocks won't be free to rotate so I am hoping they won't tangle

@RossM
Using three-way pulleys is a very challenging and interesting proposition; the line tends to get jammed.
In an open system like the one I used (where the sheets are free to be shortened or not), the boom—relying solely on the wind acting on the sail—will struggle to unspool the line.
If, on the other hand, the system is closed, the line is kept under tension by a counter-line, but then we run into the problem of having a fixed opening angle rather than a variable one.
In any case, there is no point in me racking my brains over it; I’ll wait to see your results, as I’m counting on the fact that you have a perfectly clear idea of ​​what needs to be done.

@AlessandroSPQR
Okay then, order has been made. Next up will be bench test of the main boom. The excitement there will be the triple block that the main sheet runs through, the same as full sized BLUENOSE. The block is walnut wood, the sheaves are birch. The sheet travel length is about 120 cm. This may take 3 days, the mast hasn't been stepped on the bench yet

If you can figure this out, you win a prize. That was the new video yesterday of the powered winch running the STAYSAIL

@RossM
Ah, okay Ross—perfect, then you're all set.
I’d just like to see the mechanism that operates the booms.

@AlessandroSPQR This was just the test on the bench, but it is radio controlled.
servos & switches near top,
receiver left side below it,
motors batteries, right below,
receiver battery, blue,
double drum winch, lower right

@RossM
Yes, I remember that video—incredible skill.
When all the rigging (which I believe is currently operated manually) is controlled by remote-operated winches, it will be a masterpiece.

Alessandro

I don't have the capacity to move any larger video but this is it under radio control
Little stick in the middle is the position of the leech of the foresail
Tall stick is where the main mast will be
Stick on the other side is the luff of the foresail

@AlessandroSPQR
I have the original testing equipment. The original was simply a manual test. If I pulled on the starboard sheet, it moved to the starboard side. if I pulled on the port sheet, it moved to the port side. I should now add the winch to see if it can successfully be done remotely.
1) Little stick on the right represents the foremast
2) Tall stick on the left represents the main mast
3) Little stick towards the left represents the leech of the foresail

Give me a couple of days

@RossM
Spectacular, brilliant, and complex.
To fully grasp it, I need to see how it works—but that’s just a limitation on my end, so don’t worry about it.
This is exactly the kind of original, fascinating work I’m passionate about and follow closely—the sort of thing I was discussing with Col.

Alessandro,

I see where your confusion is and I will lead you through to understanding.

Firstly, I am using 5 winches. 3 winches are single drum. 2 are double drum.

The single drums are:

1) jumbo jib, lowest of the 3 jibs
2) foremast winch
3) mainmast winch

These operate in the conventional manner that you are familiar with, a single sheet to the boom. The JUMBO JIB on the Bluenose has a boom. Note that, with the winch motors all the same, the single drum design is much bigger than the double drum design. The single drum gathers up and releases much more line than the double drum, just as you would expect.

The double drums are the special use drum. The sails controlled by these 2 winches are high above the deck. The sails aloft must go AROUND another object to move from side to side, (unlike the single drum boom controlled sails lower to the deck). The JIBS winch must control 2 sails, JIB TOPSAIL & JIB AROUND the luff of the JUMBO JIB below them. The JIBS winch will carry 4 sheets
1) JIB TOPSAIL port sheet
2) JIB TOPSAIL starboard sheet
3) JIB port sheet
4) JIB starboard sheet
The good part is that the travel distance is short, so the drum can be small. Yes, in this case, one drum takes up a pair of starboard sheets while the opposite drum releases the pair of port sheets, and vice versa when the motor is reversed.

The last double drum is the one that you inspired. The STAYSAIL winch. This is the most complex of the winches. The STAYSAIL winch must GUIDE the luff of the STAYSAIL back from the FOREMAST, along the side of both FORESAILS, behind both FORESAILS and forward to the FOREMAST, on the other side from it's start point. I believe that in my build blog there is a video demostrating the movement of the STAYSAIL, being tested on the bench.
This is alot of information to absorb. Let me know which part is confusing and I will clarify further

@RossM
Hi Ross, sorry for the delay.

Even though I really ought to be focusing solely on the design of the planing hull—which has nothing to do with sails and rigging—I find myself thinking about how to improve the sail control system I used on my schooner.
I’m not entirely happy with my method; while it works well for adjusting to various points of sail, it doesn't help much during tacking or jibing maneuvers.
Since I plan to build another one sooner or later, I’m always looking for inspiration and ideas.
So far, I haven't found a system that’s quite as satisfactory as I’d like.

Yours is one of the most interesting, but—as I mentioned—I do have one lingering doubt.

So, let's get to the point:
If I recall correctly, you used winches with custom-made drums (they looked great) that would take up the sheet on one side while releasing it on the other.
In my opinion, this system is perfect for controlling square-rigged yards.
I say this because a yard is a spar that rotates horizontally around its center point (where it connects to the mast); consequently, the length of line pulled in on the left corresponds exactly to the length released on the right, and vice versa.
In short, the line circuit driven by the winch around the drums maintains a constant length—it’s a closed loop.
However, when handling a gaff sail—like those on a schooner—the line's travel distance cannot remain constant. When sailing close-hauled, the line needs to be shortened as much as possible, whereas on a broad reach or running downwind, it needs to be fully extended.
I fail to see how a closed-loop system like the one you’ve created can manage these varying lengths of sheet attached to the boom.
I believe that while it would work perfectly for controlling the yard of a square sail, it wouldn't work for the boom of a gaff sail.
The problem, as I see it, is that such a system can effectively swing the boom from side to side (locking it in the desired position) but cannot adjust the boom's angle—and thus the sail's setting—relative to the boat.
In short, with a closed-loop system, once the opening angle is set based on the line length within the loop, that angle remains fixed. Yet, an angle that works for one point of sail won't work for another.

I hope my explanation makes sense.
For now, I’ve tried to describe my thoughts using only text, but if necessary—and I suspect it might be—I’ll attach some drawings to better illustrate what I mean.
In the meantime, thank you for your patience.

@AlessandroSPQR
Well don't leave us hanging Alessandro!! What is the one thing??

@RossM
Actually, I am very interested in the sail control system.
It is very complex, but you have no trouble handling multiple controls—even simultaneously—thanks to the skills you developed in your line of work. I remember you telling us that.
However, there is one thing I don't understand.

@AlessandroSPQR

Just to pique your curiousity, a photo of the ballast bulb fin, under construction. Any time that you want this moved to build blog, let me know

@RossM
Thanks, Ross. I’ll go ahead and do that as soon as you’re back at work—though if you like, I can send a message over there in the meantime, without waiting for you to start up again.

@AlessandroSPQR
Feel free to ask!

@RossM

Compliments on your prints, Ross.


I can't wait for you to start working on the Bluenose again, because I have a few questions for you.

@RossM

Simply exciting!

@jumpugly
It hangs behind the partially complete BLUENOSE, beside the SIR WINSTON CHURCHILL print. and the other end of the room from the RG65 & DF65 (do you think there is a theme here). My wife asks if she has to ask permission to come aboard

@RossM
One of the greatest maritime paintings of ALLTIME, by maybe the greatest maritime painter of them all!
Great print Ross!

@AlessandroSPQR
Since YOU brought up Great Tea Races. . .

My print of Montague Dawson's painting ARIEL AND TAEPING.1866 RACE

@RossM
I completely agree with you, Ross.
The Cutty Sark is also one of my favorites; after all, it was a contemporary of the Thermopylae and even beat it in the famous Tea Race.
My only regret is not having had the time to visit it when I went to London, but I’ll try again.

@jumpugly

Hi Jumpugly, you'll make us jealous, hahahaha.

You wrote "As an aside, I always thought the great artist John Steel "missed the boat" with my favorite sailing ship Thermopylae, as she is under full sail while docked."
Correct and astute observation.

@jumpugly
I got a STAG HOUND model kit for my grade 6 graduation. Almost 60 years ago

On a sightly "lighter" note and a bit off topic. Here is my restored and very rare box art for "McHale's Navy."
😀

As a follow-up...
These restored box art examples are of kits in a much smaller scale, but beautiful all the same. I was particularly fond of The Bounty as I lived in Hawaii for 3 years while my father was in Vietnam. And the locales affected me deeply and I've never lost my love of the islands.
I was always a bit shocked that they didn't do a larger 1:96 scale Stag Hound, considering Revell's early success with their clipper kits.
Also notice the second Bounty restoration; it is known as a "wrap." That is when all the box sides are preserved as well. In that particular case the Bounty kit was a tie-in with the 1962 movie "Mutiny on the Bounty" with Marlon Brando.
🧐

@jumpugly
I just melt when I see a portrait of CUTTY SARK

Alessandro...here is the boxart for my Revell Thermopylae and others. I scanned the box tops of each kit in 8 or 10 300dpi sections and shipped them off to the digital artists at the boxartden.com to be digitally stitched back together for preservation in their archives. I collect Revell's old 1:96 scale sailing ships and the folks at the boxartden are always happy to add ships to their plastic model box art database. It is a labor of love for them and the modeling community especially when artists like John Steel and Jack Leynnwood were hired by the model companies.

As an aside, I always thought the great artist John Steel "missed the boat" with my favorite sailing ship Thermopylae, as she is under full sail while docked.

😉

@RossM
Ah, okay Ross, you're referring to her past as a training ship for the Swedish Navy; I had misinterpreted the use of the future tense in that sentence.

The story of the three-masted British schooner Sir Winston Churchill is an interesting one.

There are many naval training ships currently sailing the seas and oceans—magnificent vessels.
Now that you mention it, we lost a masterpiece: the ship Cristoforo Colombo. She was the sister ship to the Amerigo Vespucci but was handed over (if I recall correctly) to the USSR as war reparations after World War II.
They eventually scrapped her.
I’ve always been convinced that if she had gone to the UK or France, she would have met a better fate. It’s a shame.
In any case, she wasn't sunk.

@AlessandroSPQR
VICE ADMIRAL FREDRIK HENRIK AF CHAPMAN
Swediish navy
Purchased in 1923 to be used as a training vessel
At one stage the vessel was run around. This reminds me of the 3 masted
British schooner , SIR WINSTON CHURCHILL, also a training vessel, also run aground by her crew.
A problem with training vessels??

@ColinJ2
Hi Colin, no, unfortunately, it no longer sails.
It was also used as a training ship for Swedish Navy cadets.
Today, it is moored.

@ColRay
Hi Col, thanks for your kind words; I'm glad you like the images of this ship.

@RossM
Hi Ross, thanks for the kind words.
It might seem like a given since we’re modelers, but not everyone loves sailing ships—admittedly, with all those sails and rigging, they are more complicated to build and, above all, to sail—so I’m glad you enjoyed the images.

You’ve piqued my curiosity: which navy are you referring to?

@chugalone100
Thanks, Julian; I'm glad you like them. As I mentioned, unfortunately, I wasn't able to take photos of the interior.
If you like sailing ships, I invite you to check out the photos I posted a while back of the Amerigo Vespucci. On that occasion, I was able to take pictures on board and capture plenty of details.

https://model-boats.com/forum/151297

@jumpugly
Thanks for the kind words, Jumpugly.
I absolutely love the Thermopylae. It is one of my all-time favorite ships, especially because of its exceptional hull lines. A true masterpiece.

It makes me very happy to see historic sailing vessels—whether brigs, schooners, or full-rigged ships—saved from the scrapyard and kept seaworthy, or at least preserved in dry dock or at their moorings. They are like endangered species.

You have some truly enviable and highly prized kits.

@AlessandroSPQR do they still sail her or is she a dockside attraction?

Alessandro another nice set of images Col

I can see why the navy would want this vessel as a training ship. It's big.
Thank you Alessandro for posting these photos for us to enjoy!

@AlessandroSPQR
very Elegant vessel.
Thanks You for sharing those pictures.

Wonderful pix and info Alessandro!!!
Honestly, when I saw the white hull I thought of the "Pedro Nunes" formerly the renowned "Thermopylae." Revell kit boxart below.
Be that as it may, this ship is glorious to look at and it has just been entered into my "bucket list" of sites to see!
Thanks so much for sharing this with us.
😀👍